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Dallas

So, Whaddaya Think?

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2020-land-rover-defender.jpg

 

Shows elements of the original ethos, but not quite as utilitarian methinks. The interior looks fragile! 

 

More pics and a story here.

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Can't be worse than the original Defender.

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Interesting but I think they have pushed it too far up market.

 

here in Australia it looks like it will be priced similar to a Discovery but by the time you pick from the options list, you’ll be in Range Rover territory.

 

i don’t think I’ll be getting one - too long for my garage.

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What made the Defender successful was that it was designed to be used hard and it looked hard too. I can't see the Game Reserves I go to getting these things to replace the old ones or even the Land Cruisers that they had to switch to. They look like Chelsea Chariots and I don't think you can treat this quite the same way you would treat an original Defender. 

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I agree there will be some of the original Defenders markets that they’ll struggle to get back into.  However I think they will sell them as fast as they can make them.  I do wonder if they will cannibalise the Discovery market.

 

in some ways I see parallels to Apple (who also had a product launch on the same day), with both not wanting to appear too cheap and dilute their brands.  I think there is a large market for both a cheaper iPhone and a more basic Defender.  I don’t see how a cheaper Defender would weaken the brand as there is Discovery and Range Rover above them and to be honest, is there much capability in the new Defender that isn’t already available in Discovery and Range Rover.

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It'll draw howls of protests from true Land Rover tragics, but I bet they'll sell as many as they can make, regardless.

 

The car is obviously aimed squarely at the US market and will do well there - with the promise of actually outperforming the old 110 and 90 models off road, the provision of a ton of electronic aids and plush comfort will no doubt find willing signatories to sales contracts in the USA.

 

In the Australian outback or African bush I think it'll struggle for acceptance, though, although admittedly true adventure 4WD trekking is becoming rarer as rules and access regulations tighten everywhere. I'd hate to be an owner trying to arrange a recovery from the middle of the Canning Stock Route or Simpson Desert for a vehicle that has suddenly flicked up a "Reduced Engine Performance" sign on the dash due to failed electronics, something the Brits have historically proved to be excellent at supplying as a standard, compulsory fitment to their vehicles.

 

The electronics have always been the thing that have been a worry in the back of my mind with my LR (Freelander) 2, although so far the only failure has been a split turbo hose which gave me a first-hand demonstration of what the Reduced Engine Performance warning means in real life. Thankfully it happened withing striking distance of home, but I would not like to see that in the middle of desert dunes, particularly if owing to electrical failure. R.E.P. in reality means "Sorry, Buddy, that's it - you ain't going nowhere that isn't paved and flat", which is hardly in the spirit of the "go anywhere, fix it with barbed wire and duct tape if it breaks" ethos that the old Land Rovers enjoyed.

 

The fact that it is to be aimed up-market is verified that they're releasing the 110 first, with the more utility and bush-bashing oriented 90 only coming out later in 2020. To me there seems to be a bit of a log-jam happening with Land Rover models now - the new Defender and Discovery in particular seem to be in a bit of a conflict situation, with price, size, luxury and performance all batting in the same ballpark. Watching the release video, the other thing that struck me was the entirely claustrophobic feel of the cabin - all black with tiny, thickly bolstered side windows (when compared to other models), as if small, flat, high-waisted windows were the main design feature of the old, cramped Defender interior that were the most important thing to carry over into the new model.

 

Still, I have no doubt this thing is well backed by market research, because TATA and partners sure have sunk a veritable battleship-load of money into creating it.

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Yup, modern car electronics can sink you faster than a striped ball on a pool table. We have just gone through an agonising incident with our youngest son's car. He was the unfortunate victim of a mugging last month and the bastards stole his only car key. His car is a 2004 Opel Corsa Lite (that's a Vauxhall for you folks on the muddy island), so nothing fancy at all. I want to tell you that to get the car going again required no fewer than 6 trips for the recommended locksmith and car security agent, who eventually gave up and referred us to the Opel agents. They then took a further 2 weeks to order and fit a new CPU and immobiliser unit for this innocuous little car. Once fitted they couldn't get the information from the old CPU to download to the new one and coded onto the new keys, so they had to call in a specialist programmer to help them. At the end of the day the total cost to replace the original key (and now a spare) for this little daily driver was around 30% of the current market value for the car. Insane. 

 

I would hate to know what the cost of replacing the keys on a newer car would be. 

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Just not my cup of tea. The furthest I go off road is a car park.

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Still trying.

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If I needed a vehicle with off-road capability, I would rather have this than the Land Rover newbie.

 

Price about 36,000 euro.

 

https://www.mercedes-benz.lu/fr/passengercars/mercedes-benz-cars/models/x-class/x-class-pickup/explore/concept.module.html

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This is my idea of a 4WD ...

 

454435169_99325thAnniversaryGardenParty-9863.jpg.d034660c3103619522dfbdbc479d1e9f.jpg

 

There are still a fair few proper Land Rovers around me in rural Herefordshire, with varying levels of rot, but most farmers have gone oriental ..

 

cheers, Maurice

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"Wild things are always faster"

from 'Two Dogs' by Philip Hodgins

Wild-Things@btconnect.com

www.Wild-Things-Photography.com

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15 hours ago, vivionm said:

If I needed a vehicle with off-road capability, I would rather have this than the Land Rover newbie.

 

Price about 36,000 euro.

 

https://www.mercedes-benz.lu/fr/passengercars/mercedes-benz-cars/models/x-class/x-class-pickup/explore/concept.module.html

 

Those launched in SA a while back, but I have yet to see one on our roads. Pickups are ubiquitous around here, but the market is dominated by Toyota and Ford. Having owned a Ranger before it would be my choice again were I looking for something like that. Toyota’s are excellent too, but in this country you are likely to be murdered for your Toyota. 😔

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5 hours ago, Dallas said:

 in this country you are likely to be murdered for your Toyota. 😔

 

Crikey, what would they do for a 993 Turbo, let alone a Cayenne .. 🤯

 


"Wild things are always faster"

from 'Two Dogs' by Philip Hodgins

Wild-Things@btconnect.com

www.Wild-Things-Photography.com

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7 minutes ago, CarreraS said:

 

Crikey, what would they do for a 993 Turbo, let alone a Cayenne .. 🤯

 

 

Porsches and Porsche parts can't be used on minibus taxis, so they aren't as much in demand by the criminals. In fact, Porsches are probably one of the least likely vehicles to be stolen here as they would be very difficult to hide. 

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You mean if The worst happens in Blighty, we would we safe in Cape Town ? .. 😉


"Wild things are always faster"

from 'Two Dogs' by Philip Hodgins

Wild-Things@btconnect.com

www.Wild-Things-Photography.com

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2 hours ago, CarreraS said:

You mean if The worst happens in Blighty, we would we safe in Cape Town ? .. 😉

 

One of the things you're unlikely to get out of a conversation with those Capetonians is that they have the highest number of murders compared to all the other major centres in South Africa. So, no, it's not high on my list of places to live! 

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On 12/09/2019 at 15:01, Dallas said:

 

I would hate to know what the cost of replacing the keys on a newer car would be. 
 

Mine is nearly 9 years old now, and unfortunately I can tell you how much a key costs - AU$480. Luckily I wasn't grounded as the second key they supplied with the vehicle is still OK, but I couldn't risk getting stuck should that have failed.

 

That's just for the key and a straightforward (5 minute) programming job, but the replacement fob took nearly four weeks to be supplied. The battery is a soldered-in unit as well, so user-changing of the battery is not easily facilitated as well the fob is glued shut and so has to be cut open to get to the battery anyway.

 

The interior of the key fob has a simple little circuit board with just five micro-switches and the transponder chip, which would probably be worth two or three bucks at best. Initially I had bought an equivalent battery online for $4, but unfortunately even after forcing open the fob and soldering in the new battery, that wasn't the problem - the unit still failed to unlock the car, although it did operate the ignition and run the car - the problem of course being that getting into the car in the first place (even when using the passenger-door emergency 'conventional' key) sets off the alarm.

 

My take on Land Rover's key setup is "extortion". The car can't be driven without one, yet if the cheap electronics in the fob fail, you ultimately have no choice but to buy a new key fob from LR. You can get cheaper after-market fobs, but the LR service agents won't program the non-OEM units. However I eventually bought a new fob from an independent locksmith, which didn't save any money for me but at least I deprived LR of my money for the retail programming and supply of the replacement unit.

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It's just a ridiculous gouge, isn't it? Trent's key episode cost just under R12k, which is about AUD1200 today. The car's book value is about R34000. What irked me is that the agents said they could do it, no problem, but even after they got the parts they took over a week to get it all sorted out. Thankfully I have a very good insurance policy so they have covered most of the costs of his mugging. The next thing now is to deal with re-issuing of his ID card and driver's license, which requires a day-long visit to Home Affairs and then probably the better part of another day at the licensing department. Joy unbridled...

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Back to the new Defender. Hammond took a closer look at them in their new YT channel. I have to say, this looks like a lot of tech on wheels (which I like) but the proving ground will be overall reliability of that tech. Price is ludicrous... 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Dallas said:

Back to the new Defender. Hammond took a closer look at them in their new YT channel. I have to say, this looks like a lot of tech on wheels (which I like) but the proving ground will be overall reliability of that tech. Price is ludicrous... 

 

 

There are rather a lot of YouTube videos of people wandering around those same two vehicles in that same forest clearing!🙄🙄

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Mmmm... must have been a "controlled" launch environment. :) 

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28 minutes ago, Dallas said:

Mmmm... must have been a "controlled" launch environment. :) 

It will be interesting to see once reviewers get to properly test them away from the controlled environments.  If you haven't come across them, try TFL on YouTube.  They occasionally take press cars properly off road.

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The cars in the photo above are fitted with alloy wheels and very wide low-profile tyres. Hardly the best kit for going offroad..

V

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Land Rover Reborn

17 hours ago, vivionm said:

The cars in the photo above are fitted with alloy wheels and very wide low-profile tyres. Hardly the best kit for going offroad..

V


The basic 90 will come with steel wheels, higher profile tyres and coil springs as a package or the option of air suspension and alloy wheels, obviously aimed at more rugged and poorer serviced markets, where getting to a repair outlet isn't as easy as in a compact country like the UK.

Interesting that Richard Hammond also lets slip that the factory building the Defender is in Slovakia, which presumably will better position easy distribution throughout the EU post Brexit, so LR presumably is not expecting it to be a big seller in the UK. From what I've seen of Land Rover magazines in the past, UK "greenlanes" barely qualify as being a 2WD farm driveway here in Australia, so pretty much any of the current Range Rover/Discovery range will easily handle almost anything that it's legal to drive on there. The new Defender with all its traction and rough driving aids probably isn't even necessary there, other than for weekend warriors in abandoned quarries.
 

Anyhow, Land Rover UK is flat out rebuilding old Defenders for the mainly British LR tragics who can't see past that thing first drawn in beach sand in the late 1940's, but which would never make registration requirements in most countries - https://www.landrover.com/explore-land-rover/land-rover-classic/classic-defender.html


There was a reason the old jalopy was killed off, namely that it didn't meet even the most basic compulsory occupant safety standards any longer (amongst a string of reliability problems and physically injurious things liable to befall owners). The things can't even have an airbag, which therefore makes a lethal steering column standard equipment.

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I am excited that this is finally coming back to the US after a long absence. I will definitely go check it out  and may even get one for my wife as we have been talking about replacing her SUV sometime next year.

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