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Dallas

Should FZ return to being primarily about MILC systems?

  

54 members have voted

  1. 1. Should FZ return to being about MILC systems?

    • Yes
      15
    • No
      31
    • Not concerned either way
      10


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I frequently do not log into this site, I do drop in to read few interesting thoughts as a guest:

 

Ann’s current wisdom, or passion, Rags stories, Armando’s wonderful creative photographic activity, Ron’s street photography, and Mike G, views and photos.

 

While I read about equipment of interest on this site (Nikon DSLR), I use other sites for real reviews.

 

I have grown bored of the threads discussing a specific item of equipment, only to have placed in the middle of the thread, “this is the reason I went mirrorless”.

 

The truth is, I do not like using Bjorn’s reviews of equipment as a site feature (after the events of the past).

 

I do photography as a passion/hobby, I spend real cash for gear, I will spend real cash on a site of interest, a couple of discussions on lighting, senor cleaning, lens tuning, comparison of lenses, and yes I want Ann’s review of the D5(I assume a matched set) (“oh this is the reason I went mirrorless” will be the reply)

 

The constant request for support, is boring, indicates a lack of real interest on the user group part, and has turned me off

This place should be fun, it might be enjoyable to attempt to get people together once in a while would not kill things.

I vote no, but I think I may not care

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Mongo understands that you may have to react to trends that may become obvious on your site i.e its fading appeal (for whatever reason). As the owner, Mongo understands your concern and need to act in any constructive way you can ascertain and manage.

 

Your answer to the problem has been to suggest it become an almost dedicated mirrorless photo site. This may or may not be the best way to improve its waning participation rate. Yes, sometimes it is best to specialise and be one of the only sites photographers can turn to if they are interesting in this area. However, by specialising, you are also discouraging interest and participation by a very large percentage of non mirrorless photographers out there (even if there is some small place in the site they can still participate in). All your eggs will be in one basket and you will sink or swim on that one decision.

 

Mrs Mongo (who is an excellent photographer in her own right) has often said to Mongo that “you guys (meaning photographers on photo sites) are all too busy talking about photography and having geeky discussions about equipment and collecting lenses etc , that you have all forgotten what photography is about i.e actually taking images” (or words to that effect). Mongo agrees with her. There is far too much emphasis on so called “photo sites” about everything else but photos. Mongo is not suggesting there be no other components of the site but the emphasis on photography itself should be the dominate feature - after all, notwithstanding any substantial differences in the thinking or likes and dislikes of members, it is the actual photography that surely is the common denominator that has us belonging to a photo site. Unfortunately, Mongo has all too often seen photo sites dominated by endless discussion about meaningless and obscure subjects that never yield an actual image or practical useful knowledge. There is a place for that but they should not be called “photo sites”. 

 

One of the best sites Mongo belongs to has a very  good mix of all things (no one subject or emphasis dominating the others). It is casual and friendly, helpful, welcomes all types and interests, is driven by actual images and discussion about them, how they were achieved, what to best do and avoid, equipment and settings used and constructive CC. Having a buy and sell facility is most useful and welcomed. Regular comps. (some with prizes). Meet ups between members that are close enough to each other in different States/locations. A technical section and updates, tutorials section etc etc. At last look it has about 22,000 members. Not sure how many are really active but the site has a lot of participation and averages 350 to 600 on line at any one time.  Mongo suspects you have tried a lot of what he has just mentioned and it may not be working for FZ. Not sure what the answer is for FZ but it does not seem that becoming effectively, a mirroless site is the answer in Mongo’s opinion.

 

whatever you decide and whatever happens, Mongo wishes you and the members every success.

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Mrs Mongo (who is an excellent photographer in her own right) has often said to Mongo that “you guys (meaning photographers on photo sites) are all too busy talking about photography and having geeky discussions about equipment and collecting lenses etc , that you have all forgotten what photography is about i.e actually taking images” (or words to that effect).

 

whatever you decide and whatever happens, Mongo wishes you and the members every success.

 

 

post-546-0-90188100-1457074704_thumb.jpg

 

post-546-0-07213600-1457074715_thumb.jpg

 

without words

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Regenerate green infrastructure. Let Biodiversity rule!

I blog at: http://klimafarm.com/

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I got into the Nikon system with film in the late 1970's. I have bought many great lenses for Nikon. I have a Nikon scanner I bought many years ago and have scanned a large number of negatives. My first DSLR was a D70.I was able to continue using my manual lenses and had a number of them fitted with chips. I bought a DF so it would be easier to use more of my lenses.

 

Mirror-less is interesting but I do not do video and Film is still better for archiving so I still use film even though there is not as great a choice of films as there once was. 

 

 

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"TAKE YOUR BEST SHOT"

 

Is the motto of this site.

 

 

 

If you want to change something

 

1) change layout to show more photos, less ads, less text

 

2) change the cost structure. 300 US$  for hosting per month is ridiculous. You have an expensive theme and you have and expensive service contract. Learn how to maintain the site yourself or delegate this task to people in the community who know how to do it. You can get a virtual server at a world class hoster with 8 Cores and 16 GB RAM and unlimited Bandwith for 50 Euros.... far beyond what you need.

 

3) Try to be nice to people who attract other people. If you set (2) into motion you will have no problem covering all costs with 20 US$ per regular participant per year. So you can stop boring or driving away people with begging threads.

 

Good Luck

 

Many of us try to support you for years now.

 

Next step is yours.

 

Love

 

Frank


Regenerate green infrastructure. Let Biodiversity rule!

I blog at: http://klimafarm.com/

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Frank,

 

Trust me when I tell you that I have looked at cheaper hosting extensively. There is nothing on offer that compares to what I am using. There are lots of behind the scenes costs that aren't shown on these cheap hosting sites (I looked at several) such as licenses for things like cPanel, support, extra disk space when your site gets as large as this 10 year old archive is, off site back-ups, etc, etc. Then if you do find something that does fit your needs you discover that transferring the existing site is not included in the price and they want to charge you per GB and per hour that somebody has to watch the download and re-upload. 

 

Anyway, none of what you are bringing up is relevant to why I started this thread - I am looking to find out what makes people want to visit FZ. I think I am getting a clearer picture based on the responses.

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Guest foto guy

I think, in general, folks like things with focus. If you move to MILC-only, you may lose a few, but likely pick up more than you lose. But you also need to do some marketing to let the world know you're there and what you do. The Internet provides MANY avenues to promote your site. I don't know how much you're doing in that regard, so maybe this is unnecessary advice. Just some food for thought. 

P.S. I have no problem with folks discussing DSLRs here. It's okay to discuss things that are not the focus of the site. 

Edited by foto guy

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First I applaud Ann for stepping up and saying she does not want to hear about mirrorless!   We need more people of strong conviction speaking out in this world!

 

As someone who shot SLRs, then DSLRs since 1972 until 2 years ago, I have no real interest in another site about 35mm DSLR photography.  If I wanted to do that, there is a world of other sites, magazines, online magazines that mostly cater to the traditional 35mm world.   There are very few that site that focus on mirrorless and the even smaller subset of m43.   The the other sites the come to mind are http://www.43rumors.com and https://www.mu-43.com

 

Discussing photography in general is fine.  But personally I don't want/need to discuss the latest DSLR bodies and lenses.  It is of zero interest to me having intentionally left that years ago.   Want to discuss mirrorless from Sony, Fuji and 35mm format makers....fine.  Want to discuss m43 equipment, great.

 

But as Ann was saying, the narrower the focus, the less likely the ability for positive cash flow that results from larger numbers of regular visitors.      Good luck with the decision.   

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Olympus OM-D EM-1 II, 60mm Macro, 7-14mm Pro, 12-40mm Pro, 40-150mm Pro, 300mm Pro

 

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Dallas, don't forget that current Canon and Nikon DSLR users may well become future Canon and Nikon MILC users. You definitely want to have both DSLR and MILC users on this site and both should have an opportunity to discuss photography as well as the gear used yo capture their images. Keep the site broad and rather moderate brand wars, should they erupt.

A constant talk about money will lower user interest in this site, I think.

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Dallas, don't forget that current Canon and Nikon DSLR users may well become future Canon and Nikon MILC users. You definitely want to have both DSLR and MILC users on this site and both should have an opportunity to discuss photography as well as the gear used yo capture their images. Keep the site broad and rather moderate brand wars, should they erupt.

A constant talk about money will lower user interest in this site, I think.

 

Yeah look, as I said at the beginning of this post, I would never exclude any people from FZ based on the type of camera they are using. I did even add a film section a while back that got about 3 posts before I closed it and merged those into the other gear posts. What I was asking is whether the core focus of the site should be officially set on the only growing segment of the photography gear market: MILC systems.

 

You make a good point about Canon/Nikon users eventually becoming mirrorless users when those companies do enter the serious MILC market, but that serves to reinforce my suggestion that this site should become the de facto mirrorless community (regardless of format), since we already have a wealth of experience on using these kinds of systems amongst many members. Where will people look to gather reasonable thoughts and opinions when the glorious day of the first Canon/Nikon 35mm MILC emerges? Hopefully not the ego-swarm that is dpreview but someplace like here that has become known for being the home of the mirrorless shooter. 

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Amateur Photography is 20% Eqipment and 80% taking pictures

Professional Photography is 10% photography and 90% Business.

Of that 10% it is 20/80 again.

So. Ten years ago you managed to attract the top end: professionals and amateurs with very deep pockets. Birders and people who can afford to travel the whole world and attend to 5 Safaris in 5 years.

Why?

Because of BR whose competence appeals to just this high end of the market.

So.

to appeal to these photographers you need 80% pics and know how and vernues and topics and 20% deep insight into equipment.

I can take a decent picture with any equipment.

I can only take very special pictures with very special equipment.

Mmmmmmmm

I cannot answer wich site would fit your personality.

Dallas. Go to a quiet place and answer that for yourself.


Regenerate green infrastructure. Let Biodiversity rule!

I blog at: http://klimafarm.com/

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I come here to see photographs, to draw inspiration from what others are doing. I don't care (or usually even look) what they're taken with.

 

I like the occasional real-world review of a product that's been in someone's bag for several months. I don't care about gearhead reviews of a product just purchased to do a review, or even just purchased, period. I also don't care whether it's mirrorless, or DSLR, or lens, or flash, or whatever. Something you've used to success for an extended period of time is interesting, if it's about how it helps you take great pictures, instead of being about how much better it is than some competitive piece of gear.

 

I am sick to death of the endless mirrorless vs DLSR discussions that seem to crop up on here every twenty minutes, often in the middle of discussions that started about something else entirely. I've greatly reduced my coming here for the first two things because of this thing.

 

If you like mirrorless, I'm thrilled, honestly. Take some pictures with that mirrorless and post them and shut up about how much better your mirrorless is than a DSLR.

If you like DSLR's, I'm thrilled, honestly. Take some pictures with that DSLR and post them and shut up about how much better your DSLR is than a mirrorless.

 

Ringo was right — at the end of the day, all we have is photographs.

 

(And, for what it's worth, I don't think we need someone judging whether content is acceptable or not. I don't care anything about 1x or even 500pix, and I rarely go to either.)

Edited by vr8ce
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"Mrs Mongo (who is an excellent photographer in her own right) has often said to Mongo that “you guys (meaning photographers on photo sites) are all too busy talking about photography and having geeky discussions about equipment and collecting lenses etc , that you have all forgotten what photography is about i.e actually taking images” (or words to that effect). Mongo agrees with her."

 

This is why I rarely do anything but post images.

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See my photography at http://ronscubadiver.wordpress.com/

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Guest BrianS

With threads titled like this one-

 

http://www.fotozones.com/live/index.php/topic/60385-will-2016-be-the-year-that-mirrorless-dethrones-your-dslr/

 

It seems that there is a bias on this forum towards Mirrorless/Liveview cameras. I find it a turn-off, but it is very clear that this forum is geared towards Mirrorless/EVF gear. Lots of sites are aimed at specific camera types. You should either return this site to MILC/EVF cameras as suggested, or not act like the buzzards are circling the DSLR users just waiting for them to see the light.

Edited by BrianS
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from vr8ce :-

 

"If you like mirrorless, I'm thrilled, honestly. Take some pictures with that mirrorless and post them and shut up about how much better your mirrorless is than a DSLR.

If you like DSLR's, I'm thrilled, honestly. Take some pictures with that DSLR and post them and shut up about how much better your DSLR is than a mirrorless."

 

Mongo agrees with this no nonsense approach. The image should speak for itself . If there is some small , vital element about it that could be helpful, then, tell us in a handful of words - not a thesis about the equipment !

 

One other annoying thing is people commenting on a post but taking the post in an entirely different and irrelevant direction. It is discourteous to the original poster and annoying to people wanting to read or comment about the original topic/image and being caught up in something they have no interest in. Keep comments relevant to the topic at hand. Small asides or "by the ways" are fine provided the overall comment is relevant.

 

Not sure what a site owner can do about these matters. It is really something the members should be mindful of themselves and thus assist to create and maintain a site that has a recognisable charter, discipline, feature/identity. It would not hurt any current sites to be doing this.

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Candidly I'm not active enough on this site to be impacted by a change in emphasis.  I have both DSLRs (Nikon) and MILCs (Fuji), and will continue to lurk and/or occasionally post regardless.

 

In my opinion a more targeted message is required to attract new members.  I suspect that most potential new members will start out looking for a gear related site rather than a photo sharing site.  Photo Mom and Dad will go to Flickr or something similar.  Enthusiasts are going to look for a "like" community, meaning gear related.  Maybe not brand specific, but related.  That's what led me to NG.  Without that site I'd have never found FZ. 

 

Mirrorless has a connotation that should attract potential new members.  The next step is retaining them.  Again, an emphasis is needed.  Mirrorless can be that emphasis.

 

The overall quality of members/posters here is phenomenal.  Anyone who spends much time on the site should appreciate that.  In my opinion, the core members are this site's greatest asset.  I'd like to think that will remain regardless of gear emphasis. 

 

Ultimately it is about the photos, but great photos alone are unlikely to attract many new members.  Nor is a continued DSLR v. MILC war of words.  My vote - for what it is worth - go with MILC. 

Edited by Pouncer
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Garrett

 

Cameras: Nikon and Fuji

Lenses: AF-S, Ai, CV, ZF, XF

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most photgraphers today have both systems - so how would you want them to divide themselves?

it is now since years an ongoing discussion - mosty getting started from you - which system is better

I think all people with a certain experience do not want to hear anymore about this, the discussion is

as senseless as about the colour of your car.

What I do really not understand: you are promoting Safaries - which user group is the biggets part in there with or without mirror?

Why do you built boats with supports for long DSLR lenses and then want to ban their users from your internal circle of wisdom in this forum?

Forget this gear discussion - for any brand are specialized groups in the net, with a lot more specific knowledge that it is in here.

Go back to your idea of a travel forum an invite everyboday to show every thing he/she wants, but related to the place it was taken.

Mirror the world (yes MIRROR)....jump over your mirrorphobia

To be honest, in the menatime I know by heart any product of Mindshift or Think Tank and it gets boring to click on them again. You will not make it with this solution - you only make it with a new concept for people, photography, travel and gear....gear being the most unimportant thing in this forum

 

 

edited for spelling correction

Edited by 56 DIN
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Thomas

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I found "this" site through the name NIKONGEAR.

I wouldn't be here if it was "MirrorlessGEAR" or anything similar.

Given the relative volume between the two - your foot traffic will be MUCH lower if you are all about MILC.

There are 100's of millions of DLSR's out there. Stop telling the users they are dinosaurs and embrace what they can do with their gear. If you alienate them, you are stuck with mere millions of MILC uses. If you are attracting 1 out of every 100,000 DSLR users and apply that same ratio of MILC users, you have NO TRAFFIC.

I too see humor in the fact that I come here mostly for the Safari talk.

Which is all about ultimate IQ with gimbaled seats on everything....for big, long glass.

Yet our host travels the shortest distance, carries the least gear and doesn't use the gimbals.


Hot bodies (D800E, D810, D4, D500) and plenty of glass, but always lusting for more.

 

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I created a separate site for the safaris I produce - www.photographers.travel. 

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Ann, please... why does this always have to turn personal with you? If these things bore you so much PLEASE don't participate in them! 

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I found "this" site through the name NIKONGEAR.

I wouldn't be here if it was "MirrorlessGEAR" or anything similar.

 

 

Just the opposite for me.   I can here only via Fotozone doing mirrorless.   When Nikongear was suddenly dropped into the mix, it was a WTF moment.  That is why I for one am only here occasionally.   I do not care to hear about Nikon DSLRs as I left Canon DSLRs 2 years ago.   But, I wish every success to all the DSLR shooters using any brand.  

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Olympus OM-D EM-1 II, 60mm Macro, 7-14mm Pro, 12-40mm Pro, 40-150mm Pro, 300mm Pro

 

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I asked a simple question of the community. I did it politely. Yet it seems that some people have a problem with me asking these questions, so I shall not pursue it further. Thank you for your input. 

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