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FrankF

Well, if any interest in "saving the planet" exists

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sounds to me like the australian prime minister has economic interests in coal

the mexican president has brought the economy to it's knees with a number of idiotic laws, has taken huge loans and there seems to be no end to his doings, regarding the subject of renewable energy he is different and is supporting the installation of a huge wind farm, also solar energy is also making progress ...


Regards,

Armando

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Guest DaveO

Ron

  Solar may work well in Hawaii, but it takes up a lot of space and if they are using it, the electric rates are around double the rest of the US.

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Frank, I sawthe movie "idiocracy" - thanks for the link. The first few minutes explain perfectly clearly the process under way - indeed, as I live in a place where a similar situation exists to that depicted, I'll also agree that it is entirely accurate to real life, although presented with some good humour. :D  The movie was also very funny at times, although I do think it will appeal most to the very people it is making fun of!

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sounds to me like the australian prime minister has economic interests in coal

the mexican president has brought the economy to it's knees with a number of idiotic laws, has taken huge loans and there seems to be no end to his doings, regarding the subject of renewable energy he is different and is supporting the installation of a huge wind farm, also solar energy is also making progress ...

Political parties rely on donations and donars expect something in return - Australia's rich list is dominated by the mining industry. If the parties were to be funded by the state, then maybe we could see some interest in sensible policies. Perhaps someone could come up with a suitable formula based on party membership, candidates fielded and of course, attendance of MPs in parliament!

Perhaps one house could be selected at random, like jury duty.

Edited by crowecg

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If Australia keeps up the nonsense that the Neanderthals in charge insist on carrying on with, I can certainly see a near future involving UN sanctions against us. Not a bad effort at all from a government who've only been there for less than two years - to take the country from one of the most praised on many fronts to one being severely criticised by the UN - as well as by our nearest neighbour, as well as by a host of other countries.

 

It's downright bloody embarrassing, if not intensely worrying.

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DaveO, solar works well in Hawaii as they get a lot of sunshine.

 

 

Geothermal is less intrusive than Wind and solar


Regenerate green infrastructure. Let Biodiversity rule!

I blog at: http://klimafarm.com/

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20% of Australia's 7.692 million sq km is officially desert. Although it's not in only one area, the bulk is in the centre and western centre (and why it's called the "Dead Heart" of the continent) - that's roughly 1.538 million sq km that is available as unproductive and has a lot of sunshine! There's almost no-one out there except some passing through who would even see it, let alone be intruded upon by it if there was a huge (or several huge) solar collectors out there. Just visualise an area 1,238 km x 1,238km (790x 790 miles) - nearly always in sun, rarely visited with few, if any permanent inhabitants, only desert-hardy wildlife which wouldn't mind a bit of shade under panels or mirrors.

 

All in the one country which (at the moment, anyway) is run as a democracy, which hasn't been invaded since the English pinched it from the Aboriginals after 1788, and has never actually had a war after that on its own soil (save for a few Japanese bombing raids in the extreme north during WW2, and two man subs sinking an ex- ferry in Sydney Harbour in that war as well).

 

Basically you'd call that stability, which is good from the viewpoint of supplying reliable solar power for at least 8-12 hours per day for export. You'd think we'd be falling over ourselves trying to make that happen, wouldn't you?

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Guest DaveO

Alan

 

  I passed through Sydney and spent a few days there a number of years ago ( at least 15 years ) and was surprised that all the taxis are run on propane or natural gas?  I don't know why the US does not adopt this for their garbage trucks, buses, and post office trucks.  Seems like a good solution.

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Sure but what can we actually do, take a look around, in a personal sense we may accomplish some "good".

 

Quite a lot, actually.

 

1) Live near where you work.

2) Put on warm clothes instead of turning up the heating.

3) Repair and re-use stuff, make purchases based on what is repairable and re-usable. We need a circular economy, not a consumer economy.

4) Educate yourself. We have all the world's knowledge available to us; we look at kittens and bicker in an uninformed way with people we've never met.

5) Don't buy food you don't eat.

6) Don't be bullied by the media into what to think. This particularly includes toxic "othering" of anyone, on any grounds.

7) Don't be bullied by the media into whom to vote for.

8) Humankind's greatest achievements are feats of co-operation. So co-operate.

9) Teach your children the same.

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"The changing of bodies into light, and light into bodies, is very conformable to the course of Nature, which seems delighted with transmutations." - Sir Isaac Newton

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@bbb: you can do a lot more:

 

1) learn about infrastructure (the grey stuff that keeps us alive and is generally ignored) -- further reading: "whole Earth Discipline"

 

2) learn about agriculture and why current agriculture is a stupid waste of time and resources in the interest of some destructive business plans (yes, also the so called "organic" or "biological" or "biodynamic", all bullshit) - further reading "One Straw Revolution" and "Tending the Wild"

 

3) If your car breaks down for good, maybe you do not need to own one, what about sharing?

 

4) I cut our Electricity bill significantly by washing at 50°C instead of 60°C (need half the energy) and replacing all lightbulbs with LED.

 

5) Buy land, plant trees or better "edible forest" -- "edible landscape"

 

6) If you live in the countryside move to the city, your energy and material foodprint will decrease dramatically.


Regenerate green infrastructure. Let Biodiversity rule!

I blog at: http://klimafarm.com/

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Just a comment...

 

Most people think the more sunshine the better for solar... (it's what I used to think)

 

But there is a diminution of efficiency in the solar panels as a result of heat

 

So a place like Hawaii with trade winds (cools panels) may be better that the Australian desert

 

Rags

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Guest DaveO

I just remembered that when we visited the Island of Lanai that they averaged about 80 inches of rain a year and that was on the dry side of the island.  So there's a little less sunshine.

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Just a comment...

 

Most people think the more sunshine the better for solar... (it's what I used to think)

 

But there is a diminution of efficiency in the solar panels as a result of heat

 

So a place like Hawaii with trade winds (cools panels) may be better that the Australian desert

 

Rags

Which is why I specifically included mirrors in my comment, Rags.

 

Solar panels are not the only way of trapping energy for power generation - mirrors used to concentrate reflected sunlight at a single focus point in solar/thermal arrays as the first step in generating steam to power generators to produce electricity is a more industrial and perhaps convoluted way to do it, but it works. The world's largest one is a 392MW installation in California, for instance (Ivanpah, Mojave Desert). Installations such as this have a longer potential lifespan than solar panels as well.

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what Alan says. Solar thermal with molten salt as intermedium, which makes the sun shine 24/7 from your socket. does not work in Northern Europe. But it works in Spain.


Regenerate green infrastructure. Let Biodiversity rule!

I blog at: http://klimafarm.com/

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Solar thermal, as implemented at Ivanpah, has problems.  Mainly, it is a bird incinerator.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility

Secondarily, the economics of centrally generated vs. distributed generation("rooftop solar") is not settled.


Keith B.

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Seems to me that the obvious solution is for us humans to reproduce

less frequently.

All of these problems are created because of increased energy demands, less people equals

less demand, yet virtually everyone who has concerns and opinions on this subject is not

prepared to do their bit.

People the world over need a basic maths lesson, obviously this wont happen, therefore the inevitable

will be our downfall.

It's nothing to do with god either, that's just nonsense.

God won't provide a solution, it's the responsibility of each and every one of us to basically

have less kids, yet of course everyone considers it their right to add

their offspring to the world's ever increasing population.

The solution is simple but we are all hypocrites, fact!

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Guest PatrickO

Nah, can't do population control...     ...if we did then all the pyramid schemes will collapse; like pensions, governments, certain churches and city councils.

 

Just let nature and human nature do its thing. Over-use of antibiotics, starvation, greed, war...    followed by another Dark Age. Rinse and repeat.

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I thought the wealthier nations in western Europe (& Japan) have a problem with too few births, while the illegal immigrants are "out" birthing them.

 

The Chinese gov't also had limited births

 

While I read a stat, that the Palestinians are the 13th highest birth rate ethic group...

 

Rinse and repeat... like Dave said

 

Rags

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Ron has a point.

 

I live in Tasmania, an island state of Australia, positioned off the bottom of the continent. That position has it often referred to as the equivalent end of the human digestive system (although its shape has also seen "map of Tasmania" being adopted as the polite description for the lower frontal portion of the female anatomy) - but I digress:

 

Being so labelled it doesn't exactly attract people to actually live here, a fact also quantified through it being run by some of the most inept politicians and hangers-on imaginable, so for twenty, maybe 30 years now the population numbers have been around, or just shy of, the 500,000 mark. Even though houses are filled with an increasing number of electrical goods, the efficiency of the latest appliances seems to have dealt with an increasing power demand, because if anything the energy consumption in this place is dropping annually. Solar installations may have partially contributed to this, but even so, it appears that if you keep your population static or reducing, the degree that demand for energy actually decreases faster than one would expect.

 

A few years back conservationists were receiving a drubbing here because they stopped yet another dam being built (Tasmania is hydro-electric) and everyone blamed this for rising power prices and sometime-shortages. As it transpired, a couple of subsidised power-hungry manufacturing enterprises have since left these shores, and combined with falling consumer demand for electricity through the aforementioned efficiencies, there is now talk of draining one of the newer (1970's) hydro dams to return it to the unique Tasmanian alpine buttongrass plains vegetation that was there before (Google "Lake Pedder").

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Solar thermal, as implemented at Ivanpah, has problems.  Mainly, it is a bird incinerator.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility

Secondarily, the economics of centrally generated vs. distributed generation("rooftop solar") is not settled.

 

 

How many birds in the Sahara Desert?

 

Is the number significant compared to cat kills?

 

(In the US Windmills kill 9.000 birds per year and cats kill 100 Million birds per years)


Regenerate green infrastructure. Let Biodiversity rule!

I blog at: http://klimafarm.com/

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Yeah, I forgot about that often-quoted figure---which seems inflated maybe a bit--- about birds killed by cats.


Keith B.

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Guest jramskov

Frank: Thanks for the links, I only watched the video so far. The usage of a lightbulb is clever though they aren't really being used anymore. I don't think we have a single one left in our house, we're using LED most of the places but we do have a few halogen lights. Another minor nitpick is his statistics about wind turbines. Is he accounting for the improvements happening? The latest Vestas wind turbine is a massive 8MW model and it looks like they will soon be used in projects in both Germany and Britain. A prototype at a test site in Denmark produced 192MWh in a 24-hour period.

 

Wind energy accounted for 39% here in Denmark in 2014 and we continue to add more. We sometimes have problems using it all so sometimes we sell it cheaply to our neighbours. We need to get better at using our electricity at our local heating plants but current laws makes it more expensive than other alternatives and the plants are legally forced to go with the cheapest solution.

 

This has also just been finished and is now in use: https://stateofgreen.com/en/profiles/ramboll/solutions/world-largest-thermal-pit-storage-in-vojens

 

Our usage of solar energy is small, likely because our weather isn't optimal for it and solar energy has simply been too expensive. From what I read that is changing, the panels are getting better all the time and they have become much cheaper.

 

But, as the video very well displays, we have a very long way to go.

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Paradoxially Germany makes wasting CO2 in Europe dirt Cheap by subsidising Windpower and Photovoltaikpower. Due to the intermittency of both, the market works against the subsidized green energy with the result thas Gas fired plants go out of business and the dirtiest coal plants do the job. Because it needs days to bring a coal plant to the working point of relatively big efficiency the coal plants simply dump their electricity when the wind blows or the sun shines.

The combined plant of coal and Wind and PV emmits more CO2 than the coal plant alone.

Plus the cheapo CO2 certificates make burning coal more attractive in other countries too


Regenerate green infrastructure. Let Biodiversity rule!

I blog at: http://klimafarm.com/

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In short: The German way is the most stupid way to waste tax payers money. But we have no choice. 100% of the Members of Parliament support that plan.

In Denmark you have a more intelligent implementation: you complement your wind with Norways Waterpower. This is clean and only hurts the tax payers not the Environment like Germany's Model.


Regenerate green infrastructure. Let Biodiversity rule!

I blog at: http://klimafarm.com/

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