Jump to content




Photo
- - - - -

Welcome to the wacky world of Adobe (again)


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1 Colin-M

Colin-M

    Advanced Member

  • Life Member
  • 1,705 posts
  • LocationBristol, UK
  • Edit my pics?:Ask Me

Posted 21 January 2013 - 22:49

First of all, this isn't meant to be a thread bashing Adobe for what its software does or how well it works.
Just their latest misleading marketing.

I'm too tight to buy the full Photoshop, so have a copy of Elements which I use very occaisionally. When I started it today, it came up with the banner advert below:

Posted Image

Well special pricing for valued existing customers had to be a bargain, surely?
Mmm, not very special.

If you want to buy the latest version from Adobe (straight purchase, no upgrade) the cost would be £79. If you opt for a download instead, they will knock £1 off that price.

For me upgrading from Elements v9, the special price they will offer me is....

Posted Image

Of course I understand they are a commercial organisation and Elements is actually quite capable considering the initial price.

Out of interest, I then browsed to see if Adobe was indeed offering me a competitve price as a valued existing customer.
Maybe not:

Posted Image

Guess they'll just mop up the people that don't bother to check.....
Actually it's my fault - my eyesight is so bad that when I first saw the ad in the top screenshot, I read it as "Special upgrade pricing for £11" Doh! :(
Colin
--------------------------------
http://www.pbase.com/celidh

#2 Dallas

Dallas

    Fotozones Owner

  • Administrators
  • 18,177 posts
  • LocationDurban, South Africa
  • Edit my pics?:Yes

Posted 22 January 2013 - 06:07

That's rich!

Support Fotozones:  

Amazon.com | Amazon.co.uk | Amazon.de | Adorama | B&HThinkTankPhoto | Digital REV | OWC 

Alternatively you can DONATE via PayPal (donor list)

 

Follow Me On: social-facebook-box-blue-icon.png social-twitter-box-blue-icon.png YouTube-icon.png google-icon.png 


#3 Akira

Akira

    Homo jezoensis

  • Life Member
  • 5,279 posts
  • LocationTokyo
  • Edit my pics?:Yes

Posted 22 January 2013 - 06:38

Hi, Colin,

if you already have PSE9 and don't plan to upgrade (update) your current computer (or OS to be precise), you can simply download the latest DNG converter for free. You can convert the RAW files of any current digicams and then process on your PSE9.

You don' even need to spend a penny!

Edited by Akira, 22 January 2013 - 06:39 .

"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

http://www.flickr.co...tos/akiraphoto/

#4 Colin-M

Colin-M

    Advanced Member

  • Life Member
  • 1,705 posts
  • LocationBristol, UK
  • Edit my pics?:Ask Me

Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:12

Hi Akira thanks for that.
I'd assumed there were some clever new processing tools & UI goodies in the new release.

I'm using an old D300 so probably don't need the DNG update :(
Colin
--------------------------------
http://www.pbase.com/celidh

#5 Ann

Ann

    Professional Photographer

  • Life Member
  • 10,160 posts
  • LocationNew York State
  • Edit my pics?:No

Posted 23 January 2013 - 20:40

I have a different approach to software Applications: the newest version almost always introduces newer tools with exceptional capabilities, more stability and increased speed and efficiency.

I find the idea of hobbling my capabilities by using outdated software when better options exist to be unthinkable.

Having a fast, sufficiently powerful computer and top of the line software is far more important to me than is the purchase of yet another lens.


#6 Colin-M

Colin-M

    Advanced Member

  • Life Member
  • 1,705 posts
  • LocationBristol, UK
  • Edit my pics?:Ask Me

Posted 23 January 2013 - 21:12

I can understand that Ann.
I'm sure the latest versions of both Elements and the full Photoshop suite are excellent tools.

I just felt their attempt to market them was disappointing.
Colin
--------------------------------
http://www.pbase.com/celidh

#7 Ann

Ann

    Professional Photographer

  • Life Member
  • 10,160 posts
  • LocationNew York State
  • Edit my pics?:No

Posted 23 January 2013 - 21:25

I am not sure if Elements is affected, but the Upgrade versions of Adobe's major apps. (at a reduced price for existing licence-holders) are only available from Adobe themselves and a few officially appointed vendors these days.

I imagine that Amazon themselves could be one but you may need to be cautious when buying from one of their marketplace subsidiaries (or particularly if buying through eBay) because you may not be getting authentic software with a legal SN and the product will not then authenticate and register correctly when you try to install it.



#8 Ann

Ann

    Professional Photographer

  • Life Member
  • 10,160 posts
  • LocationNew York State
  • Edit my pics?:No

Posted 23 January 2013 - 21:44

Both ACR itself, and the slightly less complete version which is used by Lightroom, seem to be evolving particularly rapidly and offering more powerful features with each new version so each upgrade is far more than the addition of new camera profiles.
Camera profiles themselves can be handled via free DNG but that doesn't provide the other functionality which the newest software offers.


#9 Akira

Akira

    Homo jezoensis

  • Life Member
  • 5,279 posts
  • LocationTokyo
  • Edit my pics?:Yes

Posted 23 January 2013 - 22:07

The major annoyance I felt about PSE11 is that the tech. spec. dosen't tell that it is a 32-bit software:
http://www.adobe.com...tech-specs.html

I took it for granted that the installer automatically detect the 64-bit and install the appropriate version. It was not until I found the PSE11 in the Program Files (X86) folder that I noticed that it is 32-bit version only.

Of course, as owner of 64-bit WIndows7 machine with 16GB RAM, I can share full 3.2GB memory space for PSE11, but I would have considered other software than PSE11 if I had known that it was 32-bit only.

Afterwards I found the info in a more obscure place in Adobe's website. I don't know (or maybe do know) why Adobe dropped the info from the tech. spec.

Edited by Akira, 23 January 2013 - 22:07 .

"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

http://www.flickr.co...tos/akiraphoto/

#10 nfoto

nfoto

    Fierce Bear of the North

  • Administrators
  • 16,649 posts
  • LocationOslo, Norway
  • Edit my pics?:No

Posted 23 January 2013 - 22:14

The user space for a 32 bit process is usually limited to 2 GB, unless the compiler has set a special flag in the EXE header (IMAGE_FILE_LARGE_ADDRESS_AWARE). In the latter case it can use 3 GB on a 32-bit OS or 4 GB on a 64-bit system. Both alternatives presume there is sufficient memory available for this, of course.
Bjørn

#11 Ann

Ann

    Professional Photographer

  • Life Member
  • 10,160 posts
  • LocationNew York State
  • Edit my pics?:No

Posted 23 January 2013 - 22:23

Elements is severely hobbled and I know of at least one user of the regular Photoshop who bought Elements (in order to use it on a third computer) who sent it back for a refund while screaming from pain and frustration!

A better idea was to de-activate one of his other installations and activate his third installation on his laptop on an "as needed" basis.

The standard licence lets you install the apps. on several computers but it can only be Activated on a maximum of two simultaneously.

#12 Alan7140

Alan7140

    Advanced Member

  • Life Member
  • 5,629 posts
  • LocationTasmania, Australia
  • Edit my pics?:Ask Me

Posted 23 January 2013 - 22:51

Seriously, given the choice of Elements instead of Photoshop, I'd jump ship and get Corel PaintShop Pro X5 instead. It has an operating capacity that is closer to Photoshop and when on special (as I think it is now) it is much cheaper than Elements. Keeping tabs on Gimp, it appears they are well advanced on the path to releasing a 16-bit capable version, which would mean a functionality a lot closer to Photoshop for free (albeit with the expected whacky interface that seems to be mandatory in the Open Source world).

That said, there is still nothing that works as well and with as much functionality as Photoshop, unfortunately. I've been trying for years to find a way of getting out of Adobe's clutches, but that is still not possible if you do serious 16-bit image processing and manipulation/retouching.

#13 Akira

Akira

    Homo jezoensis

  • Life Member
  • 5,279 posts
  • LocationTokyo
  • Edit my pics?:Yes

Posted 23 January 2013 - 23:03

Bjørn,
both my 32-bit versions of WIndows Vista and 7 could detect about 3.2GB of memory space when they were running on my PC with 4GB memory without anything special, which was common knowledge even between non-expert Windows users. And now, with the 64-bit Windows7 running on a PC with 16GB memory, I can assign the full 3255MB for PSE11 in the preference window.

Ann,
fortunately, I haven't felt any versions of PSE to be hobbled, probably because I haven't used any of the full versions of PS or CS. I'd rather want to send my LR4 back while screaming from pain and frustration caused by its pushy catalog system!
  • Colin-M likes this
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

http://www.flickr.co...tos/akiraphoto/

#14 nfoto

nfoto

    Fierce Bear of the North

  • Administrators
  • 16,649 posts
  • LocationOslo, Norway
  • Edit my pics?:No

Posted 23 January 2013 - 23:11

Akira: internal devices occupied a part of that 4 GB address space leaving only approx. 3.2 GB for OS + user space. If you had more RAM on a 64 bit system, at least some motherboard/BIOS would allow you to map the "missing" memory above 4 GB so you could have the entire 4GB space for the user process *if* the EXE had the special flag set. Otherwise you'd still get the 2 GB user space.

Of course, with genuine 64 bit programs all this would become moot - to some extent, as many programs have an insatiable appetite for memory and system memory after all is a limited resource.
Bjørn

#15 Ann

Ann

    Professional Photographer

  • Life Member
  • 10,160 posts
  • LocationNew York State
  • Edit my pics?:No

Posted 23 January 2013 - 23:14

That Lr Catalogue system is appalling and it is the major reason why I detest that app. so vehemently -- although its horrible cluttered UI is not far behind in my list of Detestables.

Actually, I have never felt any need for Lr at all because the Photoshop/ACR/Bridge combination provides me with everything that Lightroom can provide -- and a great deal more as well.


  • Colin-M likes this

#16 Akira

Akira

    Homo jezoensis

  • Life Member
  • 5,279 posts
  • LocationTokyo
  • Edit my pics?:Yes

Posted 23 January 2013 - 23:18

Fred,
thank you for sharing your experience. Unfortunately, PaintShop Pro X5 is not 64-bit native either, even the "Ultimate" edition (which is clearly stated in the system requirements section, so I think Corel is way more fair than Adobe in this regard), but your advice is good food for thought for sure.

The reason for my wish to assign as much memory space as I can is to keep the software from using HDD as scratch disk. If you handle huge image data (batch processing, focus stacked panos, etc), you would need extra memory space, but I don't imagine any situation where PSE require such amount of memory space in a PC with 16GB RAM.

Would there be any situasion where PSE would use scratch disk when 3.2GB RAM is already assigned to it? I don't do any batch processing on it.
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

http://www.flickr.co...tos/akiraphoto/

#17 Akira

Akira

    Homo jezoensis

  • Life Member
  • 5,279 posts
  • LocationTokyo
  • Edit my pics?:Yes

Posted 23 January 2013 - 23:30

Bjørn,
thank you for further description of the memory system. I didn't know about the special EXE flag set, but my ASUS motherboard should provide that. The sole reason for my migration from the 32-bit Windows7 to the 64-bit one was for that extended memory space.

Ann,
it is good to know that I'm not the only one who is annoyed by the catalog system of LR4. :D Andreas (afx) seems to be yet another one. Also, the set of functions provided by PSE11 was more well-rounded than that by LR4 for my personal need.

Edited by Akira, 24 January 2013 - 04:01 .

"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

http://www.flickr.co...tos/akiraphoto/

#18 Ann

Ann

    Professional Photographer

  • Life Member
  • 10,160 posts
  • LocationNew York State
  • Edit my pics?:No

Posted 23 January 2013 - 23:42

I imagine that Elements manages Scratch in a similar way to Photoshop in that it automatically opens Scratch space to the amount that it estimates that you will need.

For optimum performance, this Scratch space should be set to open on a separate HD from that which holds either your OS or the Application itself.

I go one step further and keep a large partition (thirty-times the space needed for my largest files!) for Scratch on a separate drive from the one on which I save my image files. A three-HD setup like this really does give very fast performance and I have not yet found the need to consider using SSD drives instead of regular HDs.

Edited by Ann, 23 January 2013 - 23:46 .


#19 Akira

Akira

    Homo jezoensis

  • Life Member
  • 5,279 posts
  • LocationTokyo
  • Edit my pics?:Yes

Posted 24 January 2013 - 00:00

Ann,
the reason for me having 16GB RAM on my is to be able to set the virtual memory to "off", in order to prevent the system from accessing HD for the purpose. Now that WIndows7 Professional and above supports up to 192GB RAM, I wonder if the scratch disk would still be necessary even if you need keep the memory space ten times larger than your largest files?
"The eye is blind if the mind is absent." - Confucius

http://www.flickr.co...tos/akiraphoto/

#20 nfoto

nfoto

    Fierce Bear of the North

  • Administrators
  • 16,649 posts
  • LocationOslo, Norway
  • Edit my pics?:No

Posted 24 January 2013 - 00:17

The way Windows "thinks", yes, some scratch space is required.

More importantly, though, is all the reading and writing of small chunks of data on the system drive. No amount of available memory can prevent that. Plus with the flawed installation of many contemporary software packages, they also contribute by dumping all the program-specific data, even if it is of a scratch nature, onto the system disk. They even complain bitterly if you remove the garbage they leave behindf in the installation folders (supposedly written to "scratch"), which they actually need in order to uninstall. Sometimes you can't get rid of a program unless you re-install it to get all the crud back on your disk, then do another uninstall to completely remove the junk.

If you have plenty of RAM, it can be a good idea to use some of it on a RAM disk to really get a scratch disk of maximum speed that will wipe itself perfectly clean on every reboot. I do keep a minimum page file for the system there as well, plus Firefox caches, temporary directories for the system, scratch space for the RAW conversion packages etc. You may need more than 16 GB to create a well balanced system with RAM disk(s), though (I have 32 GB on that box, planning for more on any upcoming system).
Bjørn




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users



Receive a FREE CAMERA BAG from Think Tank Photo


An appeal to all Fotozones visitors: please help me to keep this site going by starting your gear purchases using any one of the affiliate links shown below:

Amazon.com | Amazon.co.uk | Amazon.de | Adorama.com | thinkTank Photo | DigitalRev.com | OWC | B&H or Donate via PayPal

Starting your shopping here doesn't cost you anything more, but by using the links above (or any others found on the site) you are advising the affiliate that you support this website. This results in a small commission that helps with the running costs. If your preferred outlet isn't among those listed above you can also support the site by making a donation of any amount via PayPal (no PayPal account required). Any donation will be most appreciated.