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Don't Be Afraid of the Big Bad Windows 8


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#1 Dave Rosser

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 18:05

I have the customer pre-view of Windows 8 running in a separate dual boot partition on my desktop PC. After the initial shock of the Metro Interface and working out how on earth to shut the thing down it is not so bad. There is loads of discussion on the web about how to get to the traditional desktop and where to find things like the Control Panel (Mouse in bottom left corner of screen, right click on left edge of little icon that pops up :crazy: ) so I will concentrate on photography related aspects.

1. Both Lightroom 4 and Capture One Pro run perfectly, feel (laginess :devil: ) is the same as with Windows 7
2. If you have a AMD video card there is already a Windows 8 driver available on their web site, it seems to work OK and OpenCL (as well as OpenGL) seems to be working - Capture One indicates it is using OpenCL.
3. My Canon Pixima IP8500 printer is supported with no problem However I had to do manual install of my HP B9180 printer using the original installation CD, however with this installed it seems to be working OK.
4. I have an old Nikon Coolscan III (LS30) scanner connect via a scsi to Firewire adaptor to the Firewire port on my PC. Once I loaded the very latest version of Vuescan which is Windows 8 compatible Vuescan installed the necessary drivers and the scanner is working perfectly.

I am even beginning to rather like the Metro Interface. :cool:
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#2 Mike Smuts

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 18:35

O crap. Can somebody please translate this to dummy speak please - I'm still running XP for crying out loud Posted Image
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#3 Ron Scubadiver

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 18:47

IMO, the Merto interface is optimized for tablet and mobile phone use. The legacy windows desktop almost looks like an afterthought. There are already third party utilities that replicate the start menu and provide convenient shutdown options. Think about it, users do not shutdown their mobile phones and tablets that often. The devices just go into deep sleep. Several tech sites have said Windows 8 offers the desktop user nothing. Fortunately, Microsoft will support all versions of Windows 7 through 2020. This was an extension for the non business versions of the OS. Expect PC manufacturers offering their machines with both 7 and 8 for an extended period.

I have played with the consumer preview in a Virtual Box VM. I don't see myself running out to buy it.

Edited by Ron Scubadiver, 22 March 2012 - 18:47 .

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#4 Dave Rosser

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 16:32

O crap. Can somebody please translate this to dummy speak please - I'm still running XP for crying out loud Posted Image

Like most of the corporate users you and many like you will probably gain zilch from moving to Windows 8. :drinks:

#5 Dave Rosser

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 16:37

IMO, the Merto interface is optimized for tablet and mobile phone use. The legacy windows desktop almost looks like an afterthought. There are already third party utilities that replicate the start menu and provide convenient shutdown options. Think about it, users do not shutdown their mobile phones and tablets that often. The devices just go into deep sleep. Several tech sites have said Windows 8 offers the desktop user nothing. Fortunately, Microsoft will support all versions of Windows 7 through 2020. This was an extension for the non business versions of the OS. Expect PC manufacturers offering their machines with both 7 and 8 for an extended period.

I have played with the consumer preview in a Virtual Box VM. I don't see myself running out to buy it.

Got to do a few test but I have a feeling 8 boots quicker than 7 though this may because I have a clean install of 8 on a separate partition. Only if 8 is demonstrably quicker than 7 can I see any reason at all for moving to 8. I have Lightroom 4 running on both systems so I will do a few comparisons.
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#6 dslater

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 18:23

IMO, the Merto interface is optimized for tablet and mobile phone use. The legacy windows desktop almost looks like an afterthought. There are already third party utilities that replicate the start menu and provide convenient shutdown options. Think about it, users do not shutdown their mobile phones and tablets that often. The devices just go into deep sleep. Several tech sites have said Windows 8 offers the desktop user nothing. Fortunately, Microsoft will support all versions of Windows 7 through 2020. This was an extension for the non business versions of the OS. Expect PC manufacturers offering their machines with both 7 and 8 for an extended period.

I have played with the consumer preview in a Virtual Box VM. I don't see myself running out to buy it.


I too have Windows 8 running in a VM. In addition to the Metro UI - which for a desktop PC I find ludicrous - I too disabled my with a registry edit, There's also the problem that top level windows do not have a close button anymore.
Microsoft's argument for this is that due to the new memory manager, you do not have to close applications when you're done with them since Windows 8 will quietly swap unused apps out to reclaim memory as needed. The problem I have with this is that when I'm tabbing through my top level windows with alt+tab, I don't want to have to go through a bunch of apps I stopped using yesterday to find the one in which I'm interested.

#7 nfoto

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 18:28

Let's be polite and say Microsoft doesn't seem to understand how their customers put the computers to serious use. Not every task can be conducted optimally in a point-click drag-drop environment.

I too have Windows 8 running in a VM to test my own software under it and the first I did was disabling the Metro UI. Aargh - something out of a teenager's wet dream. Hopefully the hack will be present later in the production OS, the very idea of running a server OS under Metro makes my head spin.

Besides, who cares if Win8 boots up a few seconds faster? Nothing to bother about for computers running 24/7.
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#8 Bart Willems

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 18:50

Microsoft's argument for this is that due to the new memory manager, you do not have to close applications when you're done with them since Windows 8 will quietly swap unused apps out to reclaim memory as needed. The problem I have with this is that when I'm tabbing through my top level windows with alt+tab, I don't want to have to go through a bunch of apps I stopped using yesterday to find the one in which I'm interested.


However came up with that idea should be shot and I hope they reverse that decision! Continents shift in the time that it takes to boot windows, so everyone hibernates their computer (especially since the newer versions, since XP, don't need that much rebooting anymore to stay fresh and responsive).

At work I use a set applications X
At home I use a set applications Y
Now I can't close my Halo, Half Life, and pr0n windows while at work? Great!
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#9 dslater

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 17:51

However came up with that idea should be shot and I hope they reverse that decision! Continents shift in the time that it takes to boot windows, so everyone hibernates their computer (especially since the newer versions, since XP, don't need that much rebooting anymore to stay fresh and responsive).

At work I use a set applications X
At home I use a set applications Y
Now I can't close my Halo, Half Life, and pr0n windows while at work? Great!


Not likely - if you peruse some of Microsoft's forums, you'll find that rather than acknowledging other people's point of view with respect to these issues, Microsoft's responses generally consist of them telling why you're point of view is simply wrong.

#10 dslater

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 03:44

Besides, who cares if Win8 boots up a few seconds faster? Nothing to bother about for computers running 24/7.


When you have a laptop that you need to startup for meetings and shutdown before going to pick up your child after work, startup and shutdown time become very important :)

#11 arthurking83

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 06:50

I ran WIn8 on my Gigabyte Tablet for a long while, and it worked quite well!

The Gigabyte was not setup to run Win8 as the screen requirements for the new OS were higher than what the Gigabyte tablet offers.
Without a reg hack on the tablet, I couldn't get '8' installed at all, but once this was done, i got it running fairly OK.

Some programs wouldn't load due to the hardware hack for the screen, but for the software that did work it ran smoothly and very well indeed.
Considering the meagre hardware specs of the Gigabyte S1080, this beta version of '8' ran very well indeed!(much better than Win7), even though Win 7 still runs acceptably for an Atom based CPU and 2G ram!!

Once you experience how this new Metro interface is supposed to operate in it's intended environment, then it kind of makes more sense.

For a desktop Metro may well be extremely annoying.
BUT!! from my understanding of Metro, even on a desktop, the idea behind it, is that it's supposed to work in conjunction with the Kinect system of cameras/sensors ... that it assists in using the mouse/keyboard, where hand gestures are a part of the user input devices.
The idea is that you swipe your hands around or use facial expressions to control the PC and or software you're running.

We've already seen parts of this system in other parts of M$ systems (X-Box) and experimentations (Kinect robotics program and contests) .. so the future of this new PC model is still yet to reveal itself.

No way you'd want to use Metro as a desktop as it is, without full access to the other parts of the (apparently coming systems.

One important element for me, is backward compatibility.
I have many new updated programs that work well at the moment, but one important piece of software that is still Windows 98/2000 only compatible.
Windows'es after 2000 are not supported for this software(which I run on my tablet), and running it on WinXP was ok while I had Win XP, but Win 7 was not supported at all.
So running it in compatibility mode in Win7 is the only way to keep this software running.
I just wanted to be sure that I can still use this software on the tablet with Win8 as the OS for the future.
I'm sure that one day I'll update the tablet to something newer and the only OS option will be Win8 .. so for this, I'm still good.

dslater is right about windows boot up speed on portable devices.
While on a desktop it's not important, it's use on a laptop or tablet, which tend to be shut down or hibernated more often, it makes all the difference to the experience.

#12 dslater

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 14:21

For a desktop Metro may well be extremely annoying.
BUT!! from my understanding of Metro, even on a desktop, the idea behind it, is that it's supposed to work in conjunction with the Kinect system of cameras/sensors ... that it assists in using the mouse/keyboard, where hand gestures are a part of the user input devices.
The idea is that you swipe your hands around or use facial expressions to control the PC and or software you're running.

We've already seen parts of this system in other parts of M$ systems (X-Box) and experimentations (Kinect robotics program and contests) .. so the future of this new PC model is still yet to reveal itself.

No way you'd want to use Metro as a desktop as it is, without full access to the other parts of the (apparently coming systems.


This is quite true. The big problem I have with MS on this is that currently, the only way to disable the metro UI is by hacking your registry. If this is truly the intended use of the metro UI, then MS needs to do a couple of things:

1) Put something in the control panel that allows the user to easily enable/disable the Metro UI
2) Make the Windows 8 setup smart enough to enable/disable the metro UI by default based your attached hardware.
3) Once setup has detected hardware and determined what it thinks the default should, it should still prompt the user and give him the chance to choose what he wants during installation.

#13 nfoto

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 14:48

"from my understanding of Metro, even on a desktop, the idea behind it, is that it's supposed to work in conjunction with the Kinect system of cameras/sensors"

So, are we supposed to have a robot camera/tripod running amok in our computer den?

Sigh. A keyboard is so yesterday.
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#14 Bart Willems

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 16:57

The big problem I have with MS on this is that currently, the only way to disable the metro UI is by hacking your registry. If this is truly the intended use of the metro UI, then MS needs to do a couple of things


But is that metro running on the desktop or on a tablet? I'm under the impression that metro is already being rolled out on some tablets, and I can imagine that the regular desktop (for unclear reasons) is disabled on these tablets.

From what I'm reading there is a "windows" icon on metro that allows switching to the desktop (and back to metro), and the "windows" key on your keyboard (if you have one) would do the same.
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#15 dslater

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 20:54

But is that metro running on the desktop or on a tablet? I'm under the impression that metro is already being rolled out on some tablets, and I can imagine that the regular desktop (for unclear reasons) is disabled on these tablets.

From what I'm reading there is a "windows" icon on metro that allows switching to the desktop (and back to metro), and the "windows" key on your keyboard (if you have one) would do the same.


This is on a desktop machine. Yes, there is a windows icon that allows switching to the Desktop - but it's not the same desktop as in Windows 7 - no start menu. On a desktop system, I'm not interested in ever seeing the metro UI. They've basically taken a UI designed for tablet use and put it into the desktop system.

#16 willl

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 23:11

They've just released a new "preview" version - http://blogs.msdn.co...se-preview.aspx

This, I believe will be the final release prior to the RTM/shipping version of the product.

#17 nfoto

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 23:22

Not the slightest sign of acknowledgement of user response to the Metro seen there. I'm afraid Microsoft changes its attitude less than the software. This time I'm forced to install additional bloatware from Microsoft (Silverlight) just in order to get to the beta and download it. Will these guys ever learn? Not in a million years.
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#18 dslater

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Posted 01 June 2012 - 19:35

Not the slightest sign of acknowledgement of user response to the Metro seen there. I'm afraid Microsoft changes its attitude less than the software. This time I'm forced to install additional bloatware from Microsoft (Silverlight) just in order to get to the beta and download it. Will these guys ever learn? Not in a million years.


Actually, they learn quite well. What they've learned is that the majority of their users don't understand their computers or how that work. As a result, adding more bloatware fills up the machine and slows it down until the customer decides his machine is too old and he needs a new one instead of realizing there's nothing that removing some software wouldn't take care of.

#19 arthurking83

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 07:10

.....

From what I'm reading there is a "windows" icon on metro that allows switching to the desktop (and back to metro), and the "windows" key on your keyboard (if you have one) would do the same.


I can't quite remember how I accessed the Windows traditional menu on my Gigabyte, but it wasn't via a registry hack.
The only reg hack I had to do was to set the tablet's screen to a size larger than the hardware allows natively.
This meant that I can only install Win8 on the Gigabyte as an update to Win7.

My reason for testing out Win8 was only for the purpose of curiosity to see how it works on such 'low specced' hardware, as my Gigayte tablet.

If Win8 is full of bloatware, then this bloatware runs quite speedily even on low power(Atom CPU's) hardware and 2G ram.

#20 afx

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Posted 02 June 2012 - 09:35

When you have a laptop that you need to startup for meetings and shutdown before going to pick up your child after work, startup and shutdown time become very important :)

Just put it to sleep.

I boot my machines only for kernel updates....

cheers
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