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Mounting A3+ prints. Passe-partout.


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18 replies to this topic

#1 Hektoren

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 13:44

The largest print-size I can use on my current printer is the A3+-size (13x19"). And I make a lot of prints at that size. I've always had problems mounting these prints though, as I can't seem to find a standardized passe-partout that'll fit inside a standard 50x70cm frame AND the print-size.
But this problem isn't a problem anymore as I've discovered a fantastic company in Germany at http://www.passepartout-versand.de/
I got my first shipment today of 17 passe-partouts from them, and I'm extremely impressed and pleased with their service, as well as their reasonable prizes.

The passe-partouts came in a purpose-built plywood box mounted with screws; a non-flexing tight unit. The passe-partouts were insulated from the box with cardboard wedges, eliminating any possibility of movement inside the box during transport. So professional!

17 passe-partouts at 50x70cm set me back 190 Euro, which is one-third of the price I was quoted in my local photo-shop.

Warmly recommended!

#2 afx

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 15:26

Interesting. As I am just about to order some Halbe magnetic frames (http://www.halbe-rahmen.de/) for that size...
If you order passe-partouts together with the frames they will have custom cutouts. Slightly more expensive than what you got, but all shipped in one package. I am aiming for 50x65 though with a 9cm passe-partout frame.

cheers
afx
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"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious" - Oscar Wilde
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
My latest book: The AfterShot Survival Guide  
sRGB clipping sucks and Adobe RGB is just as bad  Still no clue how to take decent pictures though, see afximages.com ;-(

#3 Krille

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 17:43

I normally also print A3+ paper and try to standardise prints at 29*39 cm, then I buy a 40*50 frame called "Ribba" at IKEA for appr. 12-14 euros (exchange rates) with an acid free passepartout.
Ribba can be found in quite a few sizes all with a standard passepartout size.
If you have an IKEA store in reach of course!!

Krister
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#4 GoteBill

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:50

This is all useful information. Thank you.

Can I ask a question of you framing experts--what kind of backing do you use for your photos and how do you attach the photo to the passe partout?

/Bill
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/Bill


#5 Hektoren

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 07:55

Interesting. As I am just about to order some Halbe magnetic frames (http://www.halbe-rahmen.de/) for that size...
If you order passe-partouts together with the frames they will have custom cutouts. Slightly more expensive than what you got, but all shipped in one package. I am aiming for 50x65 though with a 9cm passe-partout frame.

cheers
afx


The cutouts on my passe-partouts were custom made according my specification, at 32X47cm to maximize print size, and they are positioned differently according to the photo's orientation, vertical or horizontal. The margin on top is narrower than the one on the bottom according to tradition. I ordered 7 for vertical shots and 10 for horizontal ones.

The frames from halbe-rahmen look really, really nice BTW!!!

Edited by Hektoren, 20 December 2012 - 08:40 .


#6 Hektoren

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:06

I normally also print A3+ paper and try to standardise prints at 29*39 cm, then I buy a 40*50 frame called "Ribba" at IKEA for appr. 12-14 euros (exchange rates) with an acid free passepartout.
Ribba can be found in quite a few sizes all with a standard passepartout size.
If you have an IKEA store in reach of course!!

Krister


My prints are full-sized and the cutouts are 32x47cm. That's the reason, for me anyway, for using the A3+ format in the first place. Printing at 29x39 means I'll lose 373 cm2 as compared to 32x47. That's a lot of real estate to discard! But I do use IKEA frames, at 50x70. They're called "Strömby", and they're really easy to mount.

Edited by Hektoren, 20 December 2012 - 08:08 .


#7 Hektoren

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:19

This is all useful information. Thank you.

Can I ask a question of you framing experts--what kind of backing do you use for your photos and how do you attach the photo to the passe partout?

/Bill


I'm NO expert at framing! I'm just a very frustrated customer having problems finding passe-partouts fitting the A3+ format! As for backing I have no clue. I'm a barbarian, and I use Scotch tape! :D
I don't aim for longevity either, as I tend to tire of the photos after a few years anyway, and change them around a lot. I don't do exhibitions, and I hardly sell anything (I tend to give them away to people who like them)........

#8 afx

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:13

The margin on top is narrower than the one on the bottom according to tradition.

I am wondering about that.
I still have 'till mid January to make up my mind.
What are the percentages usually used for the asymmetry?

The frames from halbe-rahmen look really, really nice BTW!!!

Bloody expensive, but should handle frequent image changes much better than other frames. And no need to fix the image itself to the background or the passe-partout, as the magnets will have enough power to hold it all.

cheers
afx
"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious" - Oscar Wilde
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
My latest book: The AfterShot Survival Guide  
sRGB clipping sucks and Adobe RGB is just as bad  Still no clue how to take decent pictures though, see afximages.com ;-(

#9 afx

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:16

Can I ask a question of you framing experts--what kind of backing do you use for your photos and how do you attach the photo to the passe partout?

Not an expert but I play one on TV ;-)

I bought some archival tape (acid free etc...) that can be used to attach the image to a pass-partout.

Or I mount the image on Kappa-fix (5m foamcore board with adhesive surface).

cheers
afx
"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious" - Oscar Wilde
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
My latest book: The AfterShot Survival Guide  
sRGB clipping sucks and Adobe RGB is just as bad  Still no clue how to take decent pictures though, see afximages.com ;-(

#10 Hektoren

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:40

I am wondering about that.
I still have 'till mid January to make up my mind.
What are the percentages usually used for the asymmetry?


Bloody expensive, but should handle frequent image changes much better than other frames. And no need to fix the image itself to the background or the passe-partout, as the magnets will have enough power to hold it all.

cheers
afx


If you go to their website, you'll find more info about the theory of mounting. I'm not an expert, and the generator you use when ordering gave me the correct proportions directly, but can be overridden. The dimensions vary according to frame-size and print-size, but it's quite common to have a more eye-friendly, wider bottom than top on rectangular mounts.

#11 afx

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:01

the generator you use when ordering gave me the correct proportions directly, but can be overridden. The dimensions vary according to frame-size and print-size, but it's quite common to have a more eye-friendly, wider bottom than top on rectangular mounts.

The calculator works nicely indeed.

But why significantly larger borders on the sides than top/bottom?
(your 70cm frame gives much wider margins left&right than top&bottom for A3+)

cheers
afx

"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious" - Oscar Wilde
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
My latest book: The AfterShot Survival Guide  
sRGB clipping sucks and Adobe RGB is just as bad  Still no clue how to take decent pictures though, see afximages.com ;-(

#12 Krille

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:06

This is all useful information. Thank you.

Can I ask a question of you framing experts--what kind of backing do you use for your photos and how do you attach the photo to the passe partout?

/Bill

If you go for a pre manufactured frame incl. a passepartout then you dont need backing. All thats needed is normally there. And theres no need (dont!) to attache the picture to the passepartout you just lay everything in reverse order starting with the glass or plastic and tight it in the back. You will understand when you have the frame in front of you.
If you still need to tighten it all, if the picture is not stable, then you could buy paper sheets, acid free or not, from anywhere.

I have an Epson 3880 which only can do 34cm (17 in) wide, so I taken the decision to standardize on prints at 29*39 cm at max.
But I will look into the option to purchase a passepartout separately,
Krister

#13 afx

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:13

And theres no need (dont!) to attache the picture to the passepartout you just lay everything in reverse order starting with the glass or plastic and tight it in the back.

That assumes there is enough pressure to hold the image in place which most frames do not supply or you waste space on your print to have the same size as the frame.

cheers
afx
"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious" - Oscar Wilde
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
My latest book: The AfterShot Survival Guide  
sRGB clipping sucks and Adobe RGB is just as bad  Still no clue how to take decent pictures though, see afximages.com ;-(

#14 Hektoren

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:26

The calculator works nicely indeed.

But why significantly larger borders on the sides than top/bottom?
(your 70cm frame gives much wider margins left&right than top&bottom for A3+)

cheers
afx


Not on the vertical ones! And on the horizontal it's 11,5 cm left and right, 9,8 bottom, 8,2 on top. That isn't "much wider" and I'm not too distracted by it.
Yet!
You just had to mention this, right??? :angry: Now it's the only thing I can see!!

#15 afx

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:18

You just had to mention this, right??? :angry: Now it's the only thing I can see!!

LOL.

Just to restore your peace of mind, the landscape images that are hanging in my office have wider margins on the sides than top bottom (those are identical, no top shift). It is barely noticeable. And I am just wondering whether there is a good optical reason to have them wider.

cheers
afx
"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious" - Oscar Wilde
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
My latest book: The AfterShot Survival Guide  
sRGB clipping sucks and Adobe RGB is just as bad  Still no clue how to take decent pictures though, see afximages.com ;-(

#16 Bjørn J

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 15:51

-what kind of backing do you use for your photos and how do you attach the photo to the passe partout?

/Bill


I do a lot of mounting and framing, and the most important thing is be sure to use acid-free matboard (passepartoute) AND backing. I use rather heavy backing board, and mount the photo - with acid-free tape - only at the top of the photo. This is important, no tape at the sides or the bottom. The photo needs some flexibility to stay flat.
I buy matboard and backing board in full size (90x120cm) and cut them myself with a dedicated semi-automatic matboard cutter. If I decide to glue the matboard to the backing board I use a Scotch ATG 700 tape dispenser with ATG Gold acid-free double-side tape.
In smaller sizes the borders around the photo can be equal size, but larger sizes look best when the bottom is slightly wider. The other three sides should be the same size.

Matboard and backing is used when the photo is to be mounted behing glass in a frame. But I prefer to laminate the photo with a laminating machine, it transfers a layer of UV-resistant laminate film on to the photo. Then I mount this with glue on to a 5mm foamboard (KAPAFIX), and finally mounts this in a frame, aluminium or wood. The advantage of this method is that the laminate protects the photo, it can be wiped with a moist cloth. Since there is no glass it weighs less and is more durable, and no hassle with cleaning the glass, which is a terrible job!
____________________________________________________________

Bjørn J

#17 56 DIN

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 12:13

passepartouts are sized as follows:

side and top the same width, bottom 1cm - 2 cm more, depending on the overall size of the image
all sides the same in case of square frames (in a series)
top and bottom + left and right the same for ellipsoid photos in ellisoid frames, in square frames 1 cm more at the bottom

having different widths at left/right and top and maybe bottom and top, is not state of the art, but a necessary compromise to adjust mass product frames to mass printing formats, if they do not have the same form factor
if you do not like that you have to either scale your print or buy frames in the right size

passepartouts are availabe as standard ( whatever this is ), acid free, museum quality and conservatory quality
you need to take acid free or museum quality, conservatory is waste of money for a photo print

they are available in 1.4mm, 1.7mm 2.2mm, 2.7mm and above thickness
internet shops mostly sell 1.4mm, as they are the cheapest acid free in mass market in Europe
i take 1.7mm or more - this 0.3mm make a significant difference in felt quality, but also in price
2.3mm and 3mm are sometimes sold as museum carton, which you also can use for the back/rear of the picture
this makes sens if you cut yourelf and buy 1.5m or bigger sized sheets, you always can use cutout parts for another smaller picture

mounting is normally with a ultra thin, acid free, removable tape, picture on passepartout only the top side
you have different expansion factors of the photo and the passepartout, so you should not fix it all around on a given humidity value in your place

be aware the mounting it on board, either acifd free glue, spray glue with exhaling solvents or coated adhesive board, as well as laminating it on the top surface stops all warranty of the printer, paper and ink suppliers for your picture

mounting by pressure is only possible in solid frame with hard springs, or in individual frames with flexiponts or similiar at the rear
this works only to a mid size frame, bigger sizes will not hold.
Halbe frames are not made for that.
To avoid discussions with IKEA fanboys, it might work there, but only becaue of its entire instability and bending and/or the electrostatic charge on the cheap acrylic glass.

PS or PU boards do not transfer the pressure, so they are an uappropirate material for pressure held pictures. You need carton ( acid free or neutral buffered) with 2.5mm or 3mm thickness, which is laminated on both sides the way that it is not 100% straight - means you create a prebending while mounting

Edited by 56 DIN, 21 December 2012 - 12:16 .

Thomas

#18 afx

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 12:28

mounting by pressure is only possible in solid frame with hard springs, or in individual frames with flexiponts or similiar at the rear
this works only to a mid size frame, bigger sizes will not hold.
Halbe frames are not made for that.

But this is exactly what Halbe claims. The magnets are strong enough to hold the image in place.
And none of the users of those frames that I talked to told me otherwise, so there seems to be enough evidence to support the claims made by Halbe.

cheers
afx
"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious" - Oscar Wilde
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
My latest book: The AfterShot Survival Guide  
sRGB clipping sucks and Adobe RGB is just as bad  Still no clue how to take decent pictures though, see afximages.com ;-(

#19 Rags

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 01:23

I do a lot of mounting and framing, and the most important thing is be sure to use acid-free matboard (passepartoute) AND backing. I use rather heavy backing board, and mount the photo - with acid-free tape - only at the top of the photo. This is important, no tape at the sides or the bottom. The photo needs some flexibility to stay flat.
I buy matboard and backing board in full size (90x120cm) and cut them myself with a dedicated semi-automatic matboard cutter. If I decide to glue the matboard to the backing board I use a Scotch ATG 700 tape dispenser with ATG Gold acid-free double-side tape.
In smaller sizes the borders around the photo can be equal size, but larger sizes look best when the bottom is slightly wider. The other three sides should be the same size.

Matboard and backing is used when the photo is to be mounted behing glass in a frame. But I prefer to laminate the photo with a laminating machine, it transfers a layer of UV-resistant laminate film on to the photo. Then I mount this with glue on to a 5mm foamboard (KAPAFIX), and finally mounts this in a frame, aluminium or wood. The advantage of this method is that the laminate protects the photo, it can be wiped with a moist cloth. Since there is no glass it weighs less and is more durable, and no hassle with cleaning the glass, which is a terrible job!


Bjorn do you lose resolution with the laminate?

Rags




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